Discussion:
Feistin apparaatti ja Pekka de Grootin Chelmnosekoilut
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TJT2
2017-01-28 04:52:35 UTC
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Viime syksynä Pekka de Groot halusi ihan välttämättä keskustella Chelmnosta,
mutta heti kun heitin Daltonia, P de G tunnusti keskustelun käyvän liian
kuumaksi ja luikki karkuun, väitettyään että Mattognolla ei ole muuta
perustetta kuin että raportti on puolainen. Vaan oikeastihan Mattognolla on
taas fysiikkaa ja matematiikkaa, joten Pekalle kävi taas zimmermanit
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The system described by the witnesses (particularly by M. Zurawski)
is nothing other than the so-called Feist apparatus, an oven for burning
carcasses of animals which have died of infectious diseases. It was
developed by veterinarian Georg Feist in the second half of
the nineteenth century. A book on cremation from the turn of the
century explains its structure and operation with the aid of a drawing
(de Cristoforis 1890, pp. 125-128; see document 11):

"This apparatus was originally designed by Dr. Feist for the sole
hygienic purpose of destroying the carcasses of animals which had
died of infectious diseases, but it is easy to understand that, with the
desired modifications, it can also be used to incinerate human remains
in the case of a significant mortality, such as in case of war or
during an epidemic, when the number of victims, the lack of time or
money does not permit a crematorium to be built, and finally in all
the circumstances that captain Rey has seen when he conceived his
mobile crematorium.

(sinpattu pitkä kuvaus laitteesta)

The complete combustion takes 5 to 6 hours for small animals
and 8 to 9 for bigger ones, which weigh 250 to 500 kg, which
amounts to 4-8 corpses of an average weight of 60 kg each.
At this time, moreover, everything is reduced completely, leaving
an ash residue of 1 to 2.5 kg.[72]

The employee responsible for conducting the cremation receives
20 Swiss francs per carcass, but is obliged to provide all the fuel,
and thus earns about half the sum. Fuel consumption is about 500-
600 kg of coal, 5-10 liters of oil and about 75 hundredweight of
straw and firewood."

In summary, the Feist apparatus had the shape of a truncated inverted
cone and a hearth grate of 90 cm in diameter with a surface area of
(pii×r² ) 0.64 square meters; in eight to nine hours it could incinerate
animal carcasses weighing some 250 to 500 kg, which is equivalent to
four to eight corpses of 60 kg, while consuming about 500 to 600 kg of
coal and five to ten liters of gasoline. Assuming average values, this
results in 375 kg of organic matter (the equivalent of six corpses)
incinerated in 8.5 hours using 550 kg of coal. In 24 hours, therefore,
the cremation capacity of the oven was 1,050 kg of organic matter
(the equivalent of 18 corpses) consuming 1,550 kg of coal.

In contrast to this, the Chelmno ovens are said to have had a rectangular
cross section and were allegedly equipped with a grate of 1.5 m ×
2 m = 3 m². A system of this kind therefore would have had a combustion
capacity (3÷0.6=) 5 times higher, therefore (18 × 5 =) 90 corpses in
24 hours, while consuming 7,750 kg of coal.

Zurawski's claim that a layer of 12 corpses burned in 15 minutes73 is
therefore crazy. In such a case, one oven alone would burn 1,152 corpses
in 24 hours, which is absurd. Instead, the theoretical capacity of the
two incinerators at Chelmno would have been 180 corpses in 24 hours.

But in practice, since the two ovens were fuelled with green wood according
to witnesses, which has a calorific value much lower than that
of coal,74 the actual combustion capacity would have been considerably
lower.

But even the theoretical maximum capacity of 180 corpses in 24
hours was inadequate even for an ostensible extermination camp like
Chelmno with its relatively limited influx of victims

(snipattu jutut Blobelista jne)

Archaeological excavations carried out by the Poles in the late 1980s
and early 1990s, however, disproved the report accepted by Judge Bednarz:
they found only the ruins of a single crematorium, which had a
maximum surface area of 6 m × 5 m, not 6 m × 10 m (see chapter 10),
and therefore had a grate in proportion of 1.5 square meters and a cremation
capacity of 45 corpses per 24 hours. This fact completely demolishes
any claim that Chelmno was an extermination camp.
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23-c.pdf, sivut 86 - 89
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--TJT--
I know no greater pleasure, no deeper satisfaction than to speak the truth.
TJT2
2017-01-31 05:22:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 06:52:35 +0200, "TJT2"
Post by TJT2
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The system described by the witnesses (particularly by M. Zurawski)
is nothing other than the so-called Feist apparatus, an oven for
burning carcasses of animals which have died of infectious diseases.
It was developed by veterinarian Georg Feist in the second half of
the nineteenth century. A book on cremation from the turn of the
century explains its structure and operation with the aid of a
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.se/2010/12/mattogno-on-chemno-cremation-part-1.html
Hakusalla "Feist" selain löytää kolme osumaa, siis kolme kohtaa... Joissa
yhdessäkään ei ole mitään vastinetta Mattognon laskelmiin eikä muihinkaan
argumentteihin!!! Ekassa kohdassa näyttää olevan lähinnä lyhyt
(vääristelevä) referaatti M:n tekstistä
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Mattogno reproduces without comment Judge Bednarz's description of the 1st
phase cremation devices in the Central Commission's report[56] and a more
detailed description from a later book authored by Bednarz, which besides
the two crematorium ovens with chimneys mentions enormous fireplaces
(focolari) on which the accumulated corpses (which presumably means those
extracted from the mass graves) were cremated.[57] He then focuses on the
detailed descriptions of the 2nd phase cremation devices in the Central
Commission's report (quoted above) and in Bednarz's book, which adds the
details that 12 corpses were placed in the bottom layer, that the fire was
lit from below and no gasoline or other flammable substance was poured on
the corpses, and that the corpses burned in more or less 20 minutes[58].
Mattogno argues that these devices resemble a nineteenth century contraption
for incinerating animal carcasses known as the Feist apparatus, in order to
claim that the installed cremation capacity would have been insufficient for
the purposes of Chelmno extermination camp.[59] The capacity issue shall be
discussed in the following blogs.
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ja seuraavassa kappaleessa nuo plagiaristibloggariystäväsi hyppäävätkin jo
M:n kirjan seuraavaan lukuun "The next pages of Mattogno's book[60] are
dedicated to "contradictions regarding the activity of the crematory
furnaces""

Luku 9.3. Contradictions Surrounding the Activity of the Crematoria alkaa
vasta sivun 90 alareunassa, minä copypastasin sivut 86 - 89, tai jos
tarkkoja ollaan, sivu 88 viimeinen täysi, luku päättyy heti sivun 89
yläreynassa, ja sivulla 89 on sitten
"9.2. The Oven's Capacity and Wood Requirement"
jota en siis copypastannut aloitusviestiini, joten pistän nyt tähän kun on
niin lyhyt että jopa JiiHoo saattaa jaksaa lukea

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The data calculated in the previous chapter - the cremation of 90
bodies in 24 hours with a consumption of 7,750 kg of coal - are valid
for corpses with an average weight of 60 kg, which is that of the alleged
victims of gassing (see Graf/Kues/Mattogno 2010, pp. 130-133.). As we
have seen, the calorific value of coal varies from 7,300 to 8,000 kcal/kg,
so the average value is 7,650 kcal/kg; freshly cut wood has a calorific
value of 2,000 kcal/kg (ibid., pp. 142f.), equivalent to about
(2,000÷7,650×100=) 26% of that of 1 kg of coal.

Hence, cremating a body of about 60 kg requires (550÷6÷0.26=)
some 350 kg of fresh wood. Thus, in order to cremate the minimum
number of alleged victims - about 152,000 bodies (see chapter 11)77 -
(152,000×350 ) 53 million kg or 53 thousand metric tons of wood
would have been required. In the woods around Chelmno we can assume
a timber production of about 200 tons per hectare, as in the region
of Lublin (ibid., p. 144). Therefore 53 thousand tons of wood would
have required the logging of about (53,000÷200=) 265 hectares of forest.
In chapter 10 we will see what consequences follow from this data.
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Seuraavassa osumassa on sitten jotain vänkytystä olisi savupiippu tiilestä,
ja kolmas samaan kappaleeseen, lauseessa saivarrellaan että vain muistutti
Feistin aparaattia. Sydänystäväsi eivät siis yritäkään vastata Mattognon
laskelmiin omilla laskelmillaan, vaan sivuuttavat sekä ne että muut M:n
oleelliset argumentit. Eikun hetkinen, tuollahan on toinen ja kolmaskin osa,
joihin et vaivautunut antamaan suoraa linkkiä, joten herää kysymys oletko
itsekään lukenut?? Näyttää olevan viittauksia Sobiboriin jne, ja TECOARissa
on vastineet. TECOARhan on monta vuotta tuoreempi teos. Ja tässä
23-c.pdf:ssäkin on "First U.S. edition by THE BARNES REVIEW: November 2011"
kun taas tuolla ystäviesi blogssa "December 31, 2010" joten osavatkos
ystäväsi italiaa, vai mihin versioon he ovat tuon "vastineen" kirjoittaneet?
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--TJT--
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